Al Mohler posted a blog on marriage last week in which he quoted an article called “When Marriage Disappears.” I can almost feel his tears as they run down his cheeks.
I can feel his pain because if Marriage Disappears, where does that leave all the young men who would be kings?
This is what Dr. Mohler says, responding to that article:
“Christians, of course, will have much to add to this picture. We know that marriage, though central to human society, was not given to humanity for purely sociological reasons. Marriage was given to mankind by our Creator, who gifted us with this covenantal institution for our health, our happiness, and for human flourishing. Beyond this, believers know that marriage is given to us for our holiness, as well.
Thus, for reasons that include all that we can learn from this report, and for many more that we know from the Scriptures and Christian wisdom, Christians know that the marginalization of marriage can only lead to unhappiness, unhealthiness, and the unraveling of human relationships.”
Now, we all know that Dr. Mohler is the kephale of the male headship theology that he loves so much. I believe he is truly worried about this. He is probably worried about all men who hope to become king of their homes someday.
I’m not sure what Dr. Mohler means by “marriage is given to us for our holiness,” but on the surface , it sounds like it is something that men need in order to be holy before God – by having a wife who submits to him. Sounds a little Mormon to me. I’m sure he didn’t mean it that way and I hope someone explains what he did mean by that.
He says that the marginalization of marriage will lead to unhappiness, unhealthiness, and the unraveling of human relationships. My rebuttal to that is that some marriages are already the epitome of unhappiness, unhealthiness and have unraveled relationships.
For the record, I am for marriage. My husband Don and I have been married for 49 years, and we as a couple have been in existence almost as long as Dr. Mohler has. (he was born in 1959).
I recommend marriage, but I do not recommend the kind of marriage Dr. Mohler has in mind. I recommend a marriage of equality. He recommends a marriage of submission.
bWe Baptist Women for Equality's Blog 
“Sounds a little Mormon to me. I’m sure he didn’t mean it that way and I hope someone explains what he did mean by that.”
More than a “little” Mormon– or Muslim, or most other religions in fact. But I’m sure that 500 sycophants will line up to tell you what he meant; same for Grudem and all the other popes and kings. They don’t speak to the unwashed masses in these despised blogs but leave that to their subjects— er, followers— er, admirers– er, whatever. That way they have plausible deniability; they can make blanket statements and then hand over the working out of all the contradictions and heresies to the little pawns. They’ll challenge you to ask The Man Himself instead of merely blogging about him, but we all know The Man Himself will not stoop to our level. If anything, you’d get a secretary or automated response.
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Yep, automated response is what I’ve got before.
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I have said for years, Christian marriage is not in trouble because of feminism.
In fact, some feminism is fueled by the failure of Christian marriage because many Christian marriages are fueled by Compism which is really what is destroying Christian marriage, from the inside out.
But they hide their heads in the sand and blame the evil, Jezebel Feminist. This way they don’t have to face the fact that their doctrine is spritiually and biblically bankrupt.
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Absolutely. What woman would want to surrender her being? If she stays unmarried, then she can go directly to God. That is, until Al Mohler decides otherwise.
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Except that she’s under her father, or brother, or uncle, or pastor… there’s always got to be someone with the right “plumbing” to emit that magical mystical umbrella over her. But of course, that doesn’t mean she’s not equal in being.
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I started to wake up to the inequality directed at women in my middle and late 30’s. When I begin to ask the *why* questions the usual response was, “thats just the way things are” or “that’s the way the church has always done it”. Which of course is not really an answer but a stopper (that should just shut you up and make you stop asking those silly questions). I was watching a little of Joseph Prince (he has a ministry in Singapore) and he teaches the priesthood of *every* believer but then will deny women any real spiritual authority. It is simply doublespeak and very confusing. They want women to have an *influence* (whatever that means) without any authority.
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I sit in church and tears come to my eyes. I listened to a CD of a pastor of a huge church in Texas on Saturday, and “hypocracy” was written all over his message, but most will not see it. Along with you, I am trying to make a difference. A small snowflake added to others. The limb will break. I just don’t know when. Please be encouraged that there are those of us out here trying. Right now, I have asked for an appointment with a certain pastor. He has ignored me, but I will try again in January. Pray for that specifically.
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Mohler should be worried when evangelical marriages end by a few percentage points higher than secular marriages. How on earth could that be when evangelical couples are bombarded with comp doctrine constantly?
Perhaps they should ask themselves what fallible human can sit and listen to how they are to be in charge by their perceived authority figure and not let it go to his head?
Another problem they have is that marriage is not the end all be all in the New Covenant. Paul even talks about staying single so as to serve the Lord more fully. (They always conveniently forget that one)
They also take a metaphor about Christ and His Bride WAAAAY to far making the husband a “Christ” figure to his wife. Which as we all know brings many problems.
These guys are stuck on what they think is an inherent authority in creation order. Without this belief in creation order authority, their house of cards falls down. They map this creation order mention from Paul in 1 Tim to Genesis claiming male parts authority for all time. But that is not what Paul was communicating at all. In fact, if we take their interpretation to it’s logical conclusion, then women can only be saved by bearing children.
What they are selling is a works religion and they get to be in control of the works.It only shows their hearts for what they are that they go to such lengths to promote this errant doctrine.
These people live in the old Covenant. The New is too freeing for both men and women.
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If one goes and reads the articles at CBMW and has studied Mormon doctrine, they will see the similarities real quick. It is scary.
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What’s little Al going to do when we aren’t going to play his game or sing his song? Cry? Huff and puff and blow egalitarians’ house down?
Waaaaaahhhhhhh! Waaaaahhhhhhh!
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What was the names of the two books you recommeded for reading about equality? I would like to add them to my list, and if anybody has any more, I would like those also.
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Zondervan: How I Changed My Mind about Women in Leadership – Compelling Stories from Prominent Evangelicals
Zondervan: Two Views on Women in Ministry (the 2005 revision)
IVP: Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity Without Hierarchy (2nd edition – 2004/2005) – Ronald W. Pierce (Editor), Rebecca Merrill Groothuis (Editor), Gordon D. Fee (Editor)
Zondervan: Man and Woman, One in Christ – Philip Barton Payne (if the person knows NT Greek)
This book is recommended by someone on the Web:
IVP: Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry by Stanley Grenz and Denise Muir Kjesbo
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Thanks! I have read a couple of those. As you and my other readers know, I am not really into Greek. I am into Common Sense. But lots of other people need a deeper study than I can offer. I list books on equality in my little booklet “Dethroning Male Headship-because it doesn’t have a leg to stand on.”
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To my friends! I am so excited. Please read my story in the Baptist Standard. If you comment, please be kind.
http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12012&Itemid=9
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By the way, Mohler’s protege, Russell Moore, wrote an article for the Henry Institute a few years back claiming that comps are wimps and we need more Patriarchy. Moore is being groomed to take over for Mohler. He also said the egals were winning because comps acted more like egals in their marriages. I can’t find the article but if you go to this link, scroll down, you can hear the audio. It is called “After Patriarchy, What?
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/MP3-Audio–Multimedia/All-Speakers-Lectures-and-Sermons/Russell-D-Moore/
Keep in mind, Moore is a Dean at SBTS and also now teaching pastor at Mohler’s church were the pastor, Ezell, has gone on to be president of NAMB.
Moore, like most of them, is double dipping because Deans mke a nice 6 figure salary plus the royalties from books and of course all the speaing gigs in addition to being paid at Highview to preach. Nice, eh? Your CP dollars at work! Making the guys who want to tell us our “roles” quite comfortable.
With all the money Moore is making, an SBTS donor still walked into his office and gave him a check for 10 grand to adopt children in Russia.
These guys live off the gravy train big time.
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“Lydia,” this may be one of the most uncharitable and misinformed comments I have ever read posted on the Internet. It may be wiser not to speak to those things about which one is unaware.
For any who are interested in reading the article to which “Lydia” refers, it was published in the Journal for the Evangelical Theological Society, and may be accessed here: http://bit.ly/i1WhUk
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Welcome to this website. We welcome discussion, but we want to be accurate in what we discuss. Thank you for sending the link.
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I glanced at the article and did not agree with the last paragraph which I am sure sums up all the previous paragraphs. I am not sure how the cosmos and Jesus fit together, but what I am sure of is that Jesus never mentioned the complementarianism concept. I don’t know why you are afraid of equality. Jesus never gave any example or spoke to women in any way that would demand submission of women to their husbands. Read the latest article posted and you will see that Jesus gave women astounding news – and not second-hand news. At no time did he go through a woman’s husband to tell her anything. Submission? Not in the Gospels! And also not a concept in the epistles when they interpreted correctly.
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Not only did Lydia give a link to the audio, “Robert” who doesn’t know her decides that he can lecture her about her comment. I would judge his comment to be among the “most uncharitable and misinformed comments I have ever read posted on the Internet” if it weren’t so typical of male supremacists (MSers). Apparently “Robert” hasn’t been in many online discussions; I’ve seen far worse on the part of MSers (Jezebel anyone?).
I’ve read these men’s articles too, and they are arrogant, demeaning, and scripture-twisting. While Lydia speaks the truth about them she is called mean for doing so. And didn’t “Robert” do exactly what I predicted, by answering for those men? Who is he, their spokesman?
But I would tell “Robert” what I tell all of them: we aren’t asking for permission to sit at the grownups’ table; we’re calling out the men that try to hog it all for themselves.
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PS: Just for grins and giggles, I might post in my blog today a dissection of the vaunted article to which “Robert” would have us all submit. It’ll be fun.
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Paula:
Beginning with comment #79 in this thread at Scot McKnight’s JESUS CREED blog:
http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2010/12/13/arise-i-howard-marshall/#comments
a person named “R.C.” has responded to I. Howard Marshall’s charge (mentioned in the original post) of “The inability of complementarians to provide any coherent and persuasive reasons for denying women these positions in church—women are asked to accept a scriptural command simply because it is God’s will even if they cannot understand why it is so.”
R.C. believes that he (I’ll assume R.C. is a male) has provided a valid response to Marshall, and “sol” in comment #93 says re: R.C.’s comments and arguments that “I would hope they put to rest I.H. Marshall’s complaint about Traditionalists lacking any ‘coherent’ or ‘rational’ responses to the innovation of womens ordination.”
For your next project, Paula, I would like to read your response to R.C.’s lengthy many-posts arguments, either on your blog and/or at JESUS CREED if you choose to respond in the comment section of that thread (which may be getting somewhat stale and unread by now).
Since R.C. seems to be coming from a liturgical traditionalist Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox point of view, I’m not sure strictly Scriptural arguments will persuade him, but he does cite Scripture for his/her arguments.
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Thanks for the heads-up, Eric. I agree the thread at ‘screed 😀 is getting old, so if I get to that I’ll put it in the comments at my most recent post (or if it’s too long, make a new post). Kinda busy today but I’ll try and get to that.
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Sorry I offended “you”, Roger. Negative truths can be very uncomfortable for those who make their living off the Gospel.
Follow Christ. Not humans.
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Yes, as the article/speech says, God is the “Father” of our Lord Jesus Christ. And He is our “Father,” too. Which is why we are to relate to each other as brothers and sisters.
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“PS: Just for grins and giggles, I might post in my blog today a dissection of the vaunted article to which “Robert” would have us all submit. It’ll be fun.”
Please do, Paula. If you notice, Moore touches on the heresy of ESS to make his case for male rule. As far as I am concerned, we can forget women for the moment while we make sure people understand this is heresy that can only lead to lessening the sacrfice of our Savior. Anything that lessens Jesus Christ is abherrant doctrine. Anything that messes with the Trinity is a sign of cultic teaching. All cults mess with the Trinity.
This concerns me more than the full inheritance for women in the Body because it sabotages Jesus Christ in a very subtle and twisted way.
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Done.
http://www.fether.net/2010/12/16/moore-of-the-same/
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Paula, excellent analysis of a hollow legalistic doctrine.
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Tanx! 😀
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I like it when guys like Roger comment here.
Then I get to hear what ever wisdom the rest of you have in dealing with comments like his.
Comments that make the attempt to appear like they are taking the high road, when in fact all they are doing is promoting a self-serving and self-promoting agenda opposed to the Gospel.
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Sorry, I meant Robert.
Who said Roger?
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Thank you for listing my blog as one of your favorite blogs on equalitycentral! Surprised me.
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Heck, I’m checking in here all the time.
I don’t always comment because I don’t always have anything intelligent to say. But I always learn or am entertained, either by you or by one of your regular commenters.
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And I’m not even Baptist. 🙂
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That’s ok. Baptists are leaving and noboby will recognize the 500 lb gorilla in the room. (narrowmindedness and mean-spirited).
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Oops, I called him Roger. Sorry!
I agree with you, Mara, that they think they are taking some high road with a vague insult/rebuke. If you notice, Robert did not make any attempt to prove I was wrong about the double dipping of Moore. Nor about the donor who handed him 10,000 bucks. He can’t because it is true. And he thinks if they do it, it must be right. He follows men’s teachings. Not Christ’s.
If there is ONE thing I have learned from working around Christian celebrities for years is that it is a horrid sin to utter any NEGATIVE TRUTHS about them. Those are things never to be uttered by the unwashed masses who must obey them. It is all about Image Management. AFter all, this is how they make their nice livings and it will all fall apart if people do not follow them.
The Emporers have no clothes
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