“You ladies have really twisted scripture to fool yourselves that women can preach/teach in an official church setting, Mary did not preach a sermon, the Bible does not say that, Jesus verified her as a disciple, not apostle as all believers should tell the Good News, Phoebe was no preacher either, read Luke 6 & Matthew 10 to see who Jesus sent out to proclaim & teach the Gospel, Mary or no other woman is listed. We men are not saying Jesus hated women or thought less of them, we are saying that based on scripture & the example He left for us no woman, none not Lydia, Mary Mag, Woman at the well, none we preachers and none of these ladies claimed to be and if Jesus didn’t make his mother Mary the 1st preacher/teacher no woman has the right to make that claim.”
After four years in this ministry, I have developed a thick skin, so this comment from someone who just stumbled across my blog doesn’t faze me. It does amuse me, and it also saddens me.
It amuses me because this gentlemen starts out with his veiled sarcasm “you ladies.” He could have called us worse. But “you ladies” is bad enough. He fails to realize that many men feel the same way as we do in that women should be allowed the fullness of their salvation to preach the gospel.
It saddens me because this man is so typical of many preachers of the gospel. He demonstrates how far we have to go and the depth of the feeling against God’s created and saved.
It saddens me because he has not heard the real gospel and the meaning it has for all Christians.
It saddens me because he has not understood Paul when Paul said that we are new creations in Christ and that we can no longer look to see whether those saved or Jews or Greeks, whether or not they are of the lower class and slaves, nor whether or not they have a male body.
In fact, in light of recent comments by Baptists (John Piper) I am beginning to realize that complementarians worship the male body. That worries me. For instance, if you had a resume of a male and a woman (without any reference to their gender) and laid them side by side, it is likely that you would choose the woman. BUT YOU CAN’T DO THAT. According to the comment in the beginning of this post, you MUST find out what gender they are first.
Thank you all who have stayed with me while I have been concentrating on my book. It has been sent to the publishers and we are working on finalizing it. Please look for “Dethroning Male Headship” in the Spring.
Meanwhile, educate, advocate, and agitate for women’s equality.
bWe Baptist Women for Equality's Blog 
Jesus never told women they could not preach. The verse that guys love to shout at women about not preaching 1 Tim 2:12 could it not just as easily be interpreted as Paul’s wishes for women and not Jesus’.?
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Good point, Tommy! It surprises me that so many pastors complain that their church says “but that is the way we always do it” whenever they want to change something. They don’t realize or won’t recognize they do the same thing when it comes to preachers. John Piper said Christianity should have a masculine feel and they agree because it is the way it has always been done.
> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 14:24:16 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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But if you read and study, Paul says Jesus taught his the Gospel, the words he spoke were not his but Jesus. Even back then, church folk had a problem with women not teaching, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36, in verse 36 Paul says, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it onty you only? See, they had a problem with it then, now read 37, He said these are the commandments of the Lord.
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“You ladies have really twisted scripture to fool yourselves that women can preach/teach in an official church setting,
Most “official church settings” are so unbiblical that to use that to defend misogyny and patriarchy and gender-restrictionism only displays the selective ignorance of the one using it. I remember Gene Edwards saying this at a conference in Memphis in December 1987:
“And forsake not the gathering of yourselves together, as is the manner of some.”
That has piled more believers than, I think, any other verse in the New Testament. Boy, listen. If I could have a chance to not forsake the kind of gathering first century Christians had, I wouldn’t forsake them. But to ask me to not forsake the kind of gatherings that Christians have in the twentieth century is to ask me to do one of the worst things on earth I can conceive of doing. I don’t mind telling you all I can’t stand going to church. First of all, the term is, it’s a contradiction in itself. You can’t go to … I can’t go to church. Church is a people. And that ain’t church.
Bless your little heart, I’m going to do it again. The pulpit existed long before the Christian faith. It was called an ambo. The choir comes to us by way of the chants of the Greek choirs in the pagan temple. The pastor is a concept invented by Martin Luther. The service itself was invented by John Calvin in the city of Geneva. The pews came into existence soon after the Reformation. The church building was invented by Constantine in 323. The Sunday School was invented by Dwight L. Moody in about 1860. The stained glass window was invented by Bishop Suger … he’s not a bishop, he was an abbot … Suger in the year 1200 A.D. And the sermon that is preached is actually a concept brought into the Christian faith by a guy named John Chrysostom in about the year 400 A.D. when he brought Greek oratory into the Christian faith. The sermon is basically … not preaching, but the sermon as you and I know it basically came from Greek pagan oratory.
And that’s everything that you see on Sunday morning. And the reason it is on Sunday morning at 11 a.m. is because Martin Luther got drunk every Saturday night and couldn’t stand to get up at 6 a.m., so he made it 11 a.m. so he could get sober enough to preach.
Since in my experience Gene can be given to hyperbole, I can’t vouch for the absolute truth of the above, but Frank Viola, who used to work with Gene, said something similar in his book (co-authored with George Barna) Pagan Christianity? Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices, IIRC.
Anyway, Happy New Year to y’all!
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Thank you and Happy New Year to you, too. I need to refer Jee to your comment. Since he probably won’t rea this blog post as he is hung up on the one about women preachers I will just copy it and send it to him!
> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:43:43 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Actually, I read it and I agree with alot of what was said. I will do some reseach but I’m also at the point that I don’t go to church and I know and realize a lot of it is unbiblical. Here recently, I have been exposing the family to lies of the church. Again, I am doing reseach but I still see no women teachers even in Jesus days.
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Jee, respectfully, we have exposed the lies that you are propagating. The church has a lot of things wrong with it – much of it how they treat women – but it is God’s house. A lot of good is done by Christians in church. I see this every day. I see people who love the Lord, but who who closed their minds to accepting women as whole beings God and that is what I speak out against.
> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 20:06:29 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Priscilla taught Apollos. (Acts 18:26).
Junia was outstanding among the apostles. (Romans 16)
Phoebe (also Romans 16) was a minister and ruler- the same word translated with “servant” when speaking of her, is translated minister (of the gospel) elsewhere, and the word translated succourer in the KJV is usually translated leader (see for example the Young’s litersl translation) – and the church is commanded to assist in her work!
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You’ve exposed nothing but your lies, you still have not presented one women who preached anywhere, and I know why, because there were NONE.
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Jee, you misunderstand 1 Corinthians 14. In 1 Corinthians 14: 1-31 Paul writes the Lord’s commandments to those in Corinth. Included in these commandments are that believers are to desire spiritual gifts, but especially that they may prophesy (vs. 1). He also says that when believers assemble (In church) each one can give a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation (vs. 26). It is clear then that Paul is quoting a faction of men who wrote him in verses 34-35 and that verses 36-38 is Paul’s rebuke to these men. To confirm this, Paul sum’s up the Lord’s commandment in verse 39.
Furthermore, there are many examples of women in the Bible who teach. However, to list them would be futile because it is clear that you would only dispute them because of your hard-heartedness towards women.
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What?? The real reason you can’t provide an example of women preaching is the same as the other women on this site, there are none!
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Kristen, name 2 that taught in a church setting, maybe you can but none of the other women have.
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Jee:
I hesitate to respond to someone with your spirit, but I shall. It is too easily evident that you only came to this blog to be arguementative and not to learn. It is your loss.
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Tommy, would you beat me up if I were in front of you and I said that, wow! Oops, I didnt realize you might be a women, please accept my apology.
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What, Jeff? Did the word of God go out from men only, or reach only men? (:36) (It certainly reached both sexes and several evidences show it went out from both sexes. The clearest is the words at pentacost, saying that here God was pouring his spirit out on sons and daughters, and they all prophesied.) What was said earlier in 1 Cor 14 –everyone should bring speaking gifts,(:26) all those gifts should be used in the gathering (:26) (not just men’s gifts), and everyone should desire to prophesy – was a command from the Lord!(:37)
Whether women is named preaching is a red herring. Your argument is like saying before you believe people over 50 may eat, you want evidence from the Bible of someone over 50 eating tuna. Tuna eating is a small subsection of eating, and things are not wrong because the Bible fail to mention them.
Preaching is only a small subsection of the things discussed in 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2:12, and the Bible contain clear evidence that women did do the things (teach men, participated audibly in church) seemingly forbidden in those passages. And the Bible was not against women doing them.
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This comment was to Jee – I accidently wrote Jeff.
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Retha, Priscilla taught Apollos but she didn’t preach to him at church, no one said a woman couldnt explain the gospel to a man, Phoebe was not preaching/teaching the gospel, she did have a ministry but she wasn’t preaching, Junia was well known amongst the apostles, not an aposlte.
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Tommy, get some balls!!
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I have never noticed that using Bible verses out of context to oppress women, required any “balls.” Tommy’s choice to champion women is what requires courage. (Incidentally, I think Tommy may be female.)
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You know what Jee, when you use such crudeness and vulgarity on a mostly women’s blog it shows your true character. I’ll bet you one thing you would think a long time before saying that to me if I was standing in front of you. I do not like bullies at all and your behavior here has shown you to be just that. You’ve done nothing here to reveal any real Christian character and personally you strike me as a TROLL.
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Retha, no matter your interpretation, Paul said in all churches of the saints, women were to be silent & ask their husbands at home if they had questions. That goes with Timothy when he says women should learn in subjection…No women preached in Jesus’ day nor should there be any today.
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Gee, Jee:
I hope you can tell from the context that Paul here, if he even wrote 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (and there is good reason to believe it was a later insertion by a scribe – see Gordon Fee and Philip B. Payne on this – or that Paul was possibly quoting something the Corinthians wrote to him, and then refuting it), would have only been referring to MARRIED women, which means it can’t automatically be applied to all “women,” but only to “wives” (the same word in NT Greek).
Also, “as in all the churches of the saints” could be the end of 14:33 and not the beginning of 14:34. The Greek mss. had no punctuation.
Note that Paul there in 1 Corinthians 14 has just finished giving them instructions on how prophesy is to be handled, saying that all/each of them could prophesy, but decently and in order. And just 3 chapters earlier he had given instructions that when women prayed or prophesied, they were to do so with covered (by their long hair?) heads. WHY, in the context of instructions about prophesy, would he now be telling women to be silent in church when he had just told the church the manner in which women were to speak – i.e., to prophesy?
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Jee Frasier has set himself the task of getting uppity women back in line. No one, as far as I can see, has appointed him to this supposedly noble position. I suggest that he not be permitted to teach or usurp Shirley’s authority on her blog.
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I think Jee has come to the wrong place to teach women anything. Hopefully it will teach others that there are many just like him and the depth of their arrogance against women, and deepen their desire to speak out against repression of equality for women.
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:30:18 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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You got jokes, somebody knows Timothy but continues in her hard headed ways!
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Jee (it seems to me) is either young and niave (repeating what he has heard and been taught). Or, he is a older guy who has lived his life this way, and just doesn’t give a ‘hay’ about how anything he says effects anybody (I think it is the first scenerio though). In either case, he blows in expecting all the women to defer to his authrority based on his maleness, superiority and knowledge of scripture (which was not proven. ) ; )
Maybe, the Lord will send some bloggers that are on the fence about this issue, wouldn’t that be great! 🙂
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They may see themselves mirrored by Jee. Hopefully the image will be enough to make them stop and think.
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:10:18 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Jee, what is your definition of “preach”? and,what is your definition of “church”? and please provide Scriptures to back up your answers. Also,would you please provide the name of just one person in the Bible that is an “ordained” “pastor”?
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1 Timothy 2 vs 7
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One verse, taken out of context and misread. It provides no name of an “ordained pastor.” It provides no definition of “preach” or “church.” It says that Paul was not permitting a woman to teach/usurp authority over a man. It does not say God was forbidding all women for all time to ever preach in church. Good grief!
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Hi all, glad you cared enough to respond. You all have a problem with men in authority, you should talk to God about that, God left men in charge, God never referred to Him as a woman, men were made in Gods image. Sorry that men hurt you all so bad! Peace be on to you!
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Jee, we have not been hurt by men. sorry to disullusion you.
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 19:54:41 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Your comments as well as the comments of other here suggest otherwise.
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God has used female/feminine images in describing God’s self right in the Bible itself!
http://clubs.calvin.edu/chimes/970418/o1041897.htm
“Adam” was a word for the first human, out of which came male and female, before it became a name for the man. All of humanity was made in God’s image.
If you are truly curious about what you’ve been taught in church that is wrong, I know of Christian resources I would be happy to share.
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“In the image of God He made them, male and female He made them.” If you think only males were made in God’s image, you have degraded women and gone against Scripture. There is no verse that says, “God left men in charge” either.
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I don’t think anyone here said they had a problem with men in authority, Jee. The only one with a problem with anyone in authority is you, because you have disqualified 50% of the church from having the authority to bring God’s Word to someone.
If you are wrong, and I believe firmly that you are, you will answer to God someday for trying to discourage fully half the body of Christ from using their spiritual gifts to glorify him and help in our call to bring the word of salvation to the world.
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Amen! to all you said.
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Keep drinking the devils Kool-Aid!
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NoGreg, no authority issues here my friend. The Bible says it plainly, women are to lean in subjection, not teach in believers gather to worship. Take your issue up with God like the ladies here, I never said or implied that women couldn’t have a ministry or spread the word of God. No women were in priesthood and if Jesus wanted to change that He would have. God gave us different roles, women carry babies not men, but our seed determines the sex, you see both men and women have tools to reproduce but neither is good without the other. But there is an order to it all. Now, I know I’m gonna get blasted for being sexist but that’s ok because Jesus never sent a woman to preach/teach to believers. Peace be onto you!
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Didnt finish before I hit reply, same with the Gospel it just plain works better when men and women work together but doing their proper role.
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And who gave you that little bit of wisdom, Jee? The Bible certainly didn’t. The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood or John Piper came up with that word.
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:21:07 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Funny: I went to a Southern Baptist church on Christmas Eve (not my choice of church, obviously, but church choices are admittedly limited where I was, and the people I went with are less uncomfortable with sexism in the church than I am).
US-style football games strike me as more honest celebrations of masculinity than that particular church service was, since in the church they thought they were worshiping God.
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You all should read about a certain damsel in Act 16 that was attempting to preach/teach, go check it out.
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The demon-possessed girl in Acts 16:16-18 was not attempting to preach or teach. The demons in her were disrupting Paul’s ministry by following him and publicly crying out. How can you misread the Scriptures so completely?
But here’s another “damsel” in Acts 16 – “A certain woman named Lydia. . . urged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.’ And she prevailed upon us.” She prevailed upon them. That means she spoke in such a way as to convince them to do her bidding. Not very submissive of her, not very silent, was it? But she is commended as “a worshipper of God.” verses 14-15.
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I’m gone Ms. Taylor and company, Peace be unto all of you!!
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If you think you did any good here you are fooling yourself. As a matter of a fact I would say you made a _____________ of yourself. Feel free to figure out the one word that would describe your work on this blog. Your signing off with “Peace be unto all of you!!” seems to me very insincere!
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I firmly believe that anyone who accepted Christ would have the Holy Spirit, which will then bear GOOD FRUIT. By the fruit can we judge a tree. Someone who displays a complete lack of humility to learn, lack of respect for others,and lack of any desire to learn the truth has not born the fruit of the Holy Spirit. When God told Satan he will be woman’s enemy, what Jee displays is a prime example. Jee does not know the will of God, nor will he ever know if all the evidence we try to tell him is in vain. Actually, tradition is exactly why the Pharisees decided to nail Jesus on the cross.Some people, even Jesus did not reach. Their hearts are made of stone and Satan has completely blinded them.
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Pastors do nothing to dispell that kind of teaching. They should know it is going on, but maybe they don’t. Does anybody out there think that if pastors knew what was being said to and about women, they would speak up? I don’t. I believe that what these people like Jee believes has come from a seed planted in church and found fertile soil.
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:51:51 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Mabel, it’s ok to have belief but where is your proof?
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And it is so sad that seminaries are turning young men out by the thousands ready to teach/preach the very things that Jee believes in spades. Of course Jee (as I believe him to be a very young man) has not learned the fine art of double-speak, and using flowery redefined terms to impress. You know, like male authority has magically become servant leadership. It sounds softer but we all know they still mean the husband/man is the boss. How does the saying go, “A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down.” Or, “You can draw more flies with sugar than with vinegar.” I mean let’s face it, it must be a good feeling to think that you are Gods favorite of the two genders, that is empowering. Why would any comp want to give up “I am the favorite” status with God. It is a fight to the death.
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[quote]Why would any comp want to give up “I am the favorite” status with God. It is a fight to the death.[/quote]
Um… I think any comp would want to give it up if they love the truth more than a lie. For that reason, there is hope.
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They don’t have anywhere to go. In my area there are no Baptist churches that will allow men to serve as deacons (highest non-clergy volunteer position with no qualifications required except they be male – (as long as they hide their other indiscretions). I agree there is hope – but it will have to be catacalysmic.
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:22:26 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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I have heard a preacher actually say that, and he was not kidding. Well, he laughed when he said it ( to soften the blow on the womenfolk i suppose). But, I knew he was speaking from his heart. Our Sunday school lesson tommorrow is about Caring Christian Relationships. 1 Timothy 5:1, 5:17-21 & Titus 2:1-5. It should be a delightful discussion about women obeying thier husbands and being keepers at home. It seems like anytime there is a lesson on women it turns into a full hour to rag on how hard women are to live with, etc. etc. etc. I am sure I will get some time to speak as well, as the SS teacher will make sure that I am given some air to discuss. My goal is to get my point across without being offensive, causing a squabble, or having them question my salvation. It is like this every time we have a lesson dealing with women in scripture. 😕
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At least you are dealing with it. I can’t remember the last time I heard any discussion about women in scripture in the Sunday School lesson in a Baptist church.
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:58:10 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Good points. And why would any woman want to give up her freedom and get married to a male headship guy? Maybe that will enter their consciousness some day.
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:10:59 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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This is a question I have given some thought to…
I think sometimes the women haven’t given thought to what it would mean to live your life married to your supervisor. The language used to describe the arrangement is euphemistic to say the least.
In the comp churches I have been to, there are no biblical (I hate that word, but it works in this contexts) alternatives presented. Therefore, if a christian
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Sorry , trying to post from my phone…
If a Christian woman wants to marry a Christian man, and have a Christian marriage, of course she will submit to him unilaterally. The Bible says she has to, and the vague flowery language (“he will protect you”) might make it less unattractive to some. Until she is actually married and trying to live out what they believe to be a biblical marriage.
A ticking biological clock and the societal pressures to marry could also be factors.
I think never recognizing other biblical options is a big one. In my experiences in comp churches, thinking was encouraged so long as you did not leave a prescribed box. Intellectual (academic?) honesty, and so real, critical thought, were not high values there, while at the same time emotional intelligence was also not valued, but that’s another story.
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I guess when it comes to SS lessons about women, marriage and ministry, I just expect the same old thing. It seems to me that some of the women believe as I do but feel constrained to be totally honest about it (not to say that they are lying, but they just don’t know how to express themselves) and it is easier to keep the peace with the hubbies and men that way. We have at least 1 or 2 lessons a quarter where we deal with scriptures that speak about women/wives/specific women etc. But, like I said, it often becomes a time to talk about female defects. This past Sunday, the class seemed to seize on the 1 Tim 5:13. “And withall they (young widows) learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.” That was the opening to start bad mouthing women. My husband spoke up and said, Hey, it’s not just young widows that do that (men laughed). And I said, it doesn’t always have to be a female either (women laughed). And several sisters said, Amen! It was just pure honesty to admit that men do these sort of things as well. And all the men
said, Nothing! 🙂
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Terri, no need to sugar coat the Gospel, it is what it is, it’s only a hard bitter swallow if you disobey.
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Well, let me tell you what happened sunday Jee. I went to church discussed scriptures, taught, prayed, sang a special, Prophesied, wept, worshiped God, felt His love and light and went away with a merry heart full of love of Christ. In no way did the Holy Ghost chastise me for any of my actions. And yes, there are some churches that have taken the message of male superiority , repackaged it, rewrapped it and tried to present it to the church as something new. Complementarianism? Servant Leadership? We even discussed the scriptures about Bishops, elders, deacons, etc. And as I told everyone, the Holiness/Pentecostal movement has done pretty well without all those positions. Gasp! How was your Sunday? 🙂
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If I remember correctly, Jee has quit going to church. And now he is trying to straighten out everyone else in their misguided beliefs. Good question – Jee, how was your Sunday?
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 14:45:17 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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I have not read any satisfactory answer on what is the definition of “preach”. So many unthinking “Christians” think “preach” means the modern day “sermon” given on Sunday mornings, during a”church” “service”, behind a “pulpit”,with one man standing facing all the rest of the “congregation”, talking about God. The most important Gospel message of Jesus’ resurrection and freeing of captives may and may not be in that “sermon” that the “ordained pastor” “preached”. Yet, the most important Gospel message, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, was deliberately first given to women and not men. Why didn’t Jesus appear to John and Peter FIRST, who went to the tomb? Jesus deliberately gave the most important message of the Christian faith: His resurrection, without which we won’t have a Gospel, to women and women only, TO GIVE TO THE MEN. When the women went back to tell the men, they didn’t believe. And male centric hardliners are telling me that Jesus would only choose men to preach? Of course I can see Wayne Grudem saying that is not “preaching”, only what a man does on Sunday mornings inside a building behind a pulpit qualifies as “preaching”. Not sure what God thinks of that definition. What we have invented as “church” nowadays has absolutely nothing to do with church in the New Testament. To say that women should have no authority over men is simply not looking at the original Greek language of that phrase, substituting it with our English translation. THe fact is, no-one should have authority over no-one else. Authority over is not what we are about. Authority is found inside the Gospel message, not found inside the body of a man. It is very sad. We do grieve the Holy Spirit, no doubt.
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Amen! What you just said is ‘preaching.’ You gave the gospel message so very well. Thank you so much.
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:14:22 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Mabel: Amen!
http://theoblogoumena.blogspot.com/2011/06/rabbis-and-fathers-and-teachers-oh-my.html
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Good preaching Mabel! 🙂
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whether in a church building or tent, whether in front back or side, history has shown that God uses men to teach the believers. Yes, women may prophecy because scripture says they can, but look at Jeremiah 28:30, there’s a difference. The Bible didn’t say why He revealed Himself to Mary 1st but it is of no significance, He sent her to preach/teach nowhere.
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You are absolutely right. Mary at the tomb is “no significance.” It is no significance to complementarians because it disproves everything they believe. But it is of extreme significance to egalitarians. However, I would be very careful in saying that what Jesus did had “no significance” if I were you, Jee. Everything Jesus did had significance.
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 04:40:57 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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You seem to be a young fella, trying to assert himself, convinced of his own rightness. I looked up Jeremiah 28:30. I hate to tell ya, there is no Jeremiah 28:30. You also conclude that Jesus speaking to Mary was “Of no signifigance”. I could understand ‘why’ you would say that. It benefits your way of thinking to do so. You make distinctions between teaching and prophecy. The only distinction that really pops out to me in the NT was that in that culture women had to cover thier heads while they prophesied (which we don’t require now). You give teaching preminence over prophecy, why? Do you possibly consider it ‘lower on the ladder’ because women are ‘allowed’ to do it? I hope not. Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:11 that he gave some, (1) Apostles (2) Prophets (3) Evangelists (4) Pastors (5) Teachers. So based on Pauls list Prophecy comes at #2 while Teaching ranks #5. Was Paul wrong to put teaching at the bottom? To claim a sharp distinction between these gifts (Teaching is more important than prophecy) is very problematic (esp. for you). As Paul says that he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor. 14:3). But he also says in 1 Cor. 14:31 that “For ye all may prophesy one by one, that all may ((((((LEARN))))))), and all may be comforted.” Learning happens when teachers teach. But, it also happens when prophets prophecy. So, what now?
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By that definition, Mabel, Jesus never preached either. He just shared. Like Beth Moore. 🙂
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Greg:
Beth Moore gets special privileges in the Southern Baptist world. Amazing is it not?
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I met Beth Moore before she became famous. Spent a Friday and Saturday with her at a retreat sponsored by a very small Baptist church. Couldn’t do that today. We laughed and cried and prayed together. But she has been taken under the arms of SBC and is the crumb thrown to women. Not that she is a crumb, but women’s minstries are.
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 01:32:11 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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It has historically been the fact that when one group holds control over another, those members of the disempowered group who will vocally uphold the status quo are given special privileges by the group in power. It happened with slaves during Abolition too.
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We do love to have control over somebody, don’t we? Wars are fought, and people of different races have been in slavery at some time or the other. The only group that has perpetually been in the status of a slave is women.
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:19:43 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Wonder if Beth ever thinks about how much harm she is doing to women in the SBC by being those crumbs thrown to them? I can not believe as we get ready to begin 2013 women are treated the way they are by the SBC! It is way past time for the Revolution and yes I do realize it will take men for this to happen.
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I think she sold her soul to the devil. A couple visited me a few months ago and this subject was brought up. They said that the SBC made a calculated decision to sponsor her and promote her as their mouthpiece as a woman. Don’t remember all the details now, but they were sure this was the situation.
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 01:57:01 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Greg, U R right. Jesus’ sermon on the Mount, if given by a woman,will be argued by Wayne Grudem and John Piper & Co. as not preaching, since it is not done in an official capacity inside a church building. That is what they say about Priscilla,that she teaches at home, and is not a “pastor” in a “church”. I never cease to be amazed by Christians’ ignorance on what is church.
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