The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood wanted world-wide acceptance, and by golly, they have got it!
Yesterday the Church of England voted against having women bishops, setting back their movement 10 years or so. In August 2012 the Anglican Church of Australia (relatives) decided that marriage vows must have the bride promising to “serve and submit” to this man she is marrying – whether or not he is capable of leading anything.
The Danvers Statement doctrine is like Kudzu. It has spread everywhere. It is nothing but leaves and does nothing to benefit anybody.
If you want a hand at chopping through this green mess, will you speak up? Will you let your church know that just because it covers everything doesn’t mean it is good. Like Kudzu, it is very harmful as it sucks the breath out of what is underneath it.
bWe Baptist Women for Equality's Blog 
I’m stepping aside from the specific post just for a moment, here, to express my appreciation for this forum. I find it to be a regular source of good information and opportunity for thoughtful exchange (despite the occasional troll ;)). It’s also comforting to know we are not alone out here in our quest for truth and the love of Christ as expressed through the whole Gospel in context.
What prompts this is the following anecdote. Earlier this morning when I tuned into a (man) preacher I respect and he began referencing the “first Adam” and told us to open to Genesis 3:15, I got a sudden pain in my gut and my first thought was “please, don’t be mean to women!”
I realized that in this response I was in more trouble than I thought, that is to say, I have been more influenced on a physiological level by the threat to women’s equality in Christ by some interpretations of Scripture, despite the fact that Jesus did not preach two Gospels: one for men and another for women. Despite understanding that the fruit of the (true) Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and so on (Galatians 5:22-23), not fear, disappointment, frustration, and a burst of stomach acid.
And, of course, the fruit of the Holy Spirit would not include the kind of anger seen in men who extract a few Scriptures out of context to create a, well, woman-unfriendly gospel. And, as you note, Shirley, like kudzu, that woman-hostile gospel seems to be spreading…
There is obviously a “healthier” Gospel message and we need to continue to preach it.
For a good discussion of the Pauline letters (so often cited to support suppression of women and their spiritual inferiority) in cultural context, I recommend a listen to a two-part teaching “I Permit Not A Woman,” parts 1 and 2, posted on a web site on Shirley’s blogroll:
I would also like to recommend Kristen’s http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com/ for many posts on the cultural context of Scriptures that at quick glance seem to support the second-class citizenship status of women in the Church, but actually in the larger context of the whole Gospel do not so discriminate. (And thanks to you, too, Kristen.)
Blessings, and a grace-filled Thanksgiving to all!
P.
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Thank you very much! We are doing something when we speak out. I appreciate your words so much. What you are saying is something we all need to hear and I am glad you expressed it so well. There is indeed frustration (I imagine Martin Luther King felt the same way when he heard references to blacks). I just want to stand up and say “WHY do you think God gave you headship over women just because of what is below your belt!”
That is exactly what it amounts to.
This past month I have been busy wording and rewording one particular chapter of my book. I know what I want to say, and am saying it, but it is so complicated that I have to make it easy for others to understand. It is an entirely new take on what is happening. I would love to share it with you all, but MUMS the word, so I won’t. You will be properly shocked and see it right away, I am sure. My editor is wonderful and keeps me focused.
But we do love our trolls! Don’t run them off. This is another way of getting our message across. Trolls are welcome here! (But nasty comments like the man in the skirt made gets deleted).
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Thanks, pnissila!
As for the woman bishops thing, apparently there were some who voted against it because it was only a half-measure. It would have allowed women to be bishops, but only a sort of second-class bishop. Here’s one Church of England woman’s take on it.
http://hereticsanon.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/i-hope-they-dont-vote-for-women-bishops-on-tuesday/
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Kudzu is a great metaphor to convey the idea how this toxin has spread so far and wide. I also came across another good metaphor that applies to what this toxin is doing to the individual. For my non Facebook friends, here it is:
“Patriarchy is like a dog: it sheds its coat all the time, but keeps peeing on the same fire hydrant. Yesterday that coat was “Patriarchy,” today it’s “Complimentarianism” and tomorrow it’ll be some variation of “Biblical Manhood/Womanhood/Servant/Masterhood.” If you’re a woman, like the fire hydrant, the color of the coat just doesn’t matter, but the denigration and subjugation does. Please help people to see that patriarchy, under any name, puts down women all the way from “third world” Nigeria, to the destitute shanties of Cambodia, to the affluent ‘burbs of Dallas. Oh, and while you’re at it, please help Americans understand that our version of patriarchy isn’t morally superior to the African, Asian, or South American kind.
Yesterday, that dog with the male Bishop coat just peed on the women in the Church of England.
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On this Thanksgiving Day I, too, would like to express my appreciation for this forum. Thankyou, Shirley, for all you do to speak out for the equality of women and for allowing us to share what is on our hearts.
Also, thankyou pnissila for recommending Kristen’s website. Kristen, your post on “Even the Dogs Eat the Crumbs: Jesus and the Syro-Phoenician Woman” really spoke to me and once again shows the immense love that Jesus has for women.
To all, have a blessed Thanksgiving.
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Thank you dear friends! My heartfelt gratitude to all of you. You have nurtured me through my ignorance, and inspired me to keep to the path for equality. We are running this race together.
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:46:02 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Kristen D — thanks so much. When everything I’d been reading coalesced, and I realized at last what must have been actually going on between Jesus and the Syro-Phoenician woman, I was blown away once again by the amazingness of our Savior. I’m so glad it blessed you, too!
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Kristen Dugas: thanks for commenting here. I clicked on your name and found your blog. Wonderful word studies there. Will read. I also introduced it to our CBE Houston Chapter facebook friends.
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Hi Mabel: Just in case there is any confusion, the blog belongs to another Kristen. I too thought it was great and saved it to my favorites. But if you are interested, I do have my own website ( http://www.womanthegloryofman.com ) in which I give my interpretation of the difficult “woman passages”. God Bless
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Was wondring…
Why do women seek equality In “The Corrupt Religious System?”
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Where else is there? Many are staying home, but I can’t do that. Many have left the SBC. I worked for Baptist General Convention for almost 15 years and found people who truly love the Lord and are working for the Kingdom. I have many friends who are trapped in this system, and I am trying to free them. Most are not even aware of the net around them. They truly think they can serve the Lord (and they do). So good to hear from you again!
> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 18:20:45 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Hi Shirly – And good to hear from you also.
You ask…
“Where else is there?” – That’s a reasonable question. One many ask…
But – Maybe that’s NOT the best question.
Ask different questions – Get different answers. 😉
And, short answer is – Ask Jesus – Hear what He has to say – Then Follow Him.
Jesus, never asks us to follow “Mere Fallible Humans.” aka – church leaders. 😉
John 10:27 – Jesus said…
My Sheep – Hear – My Voice, I Know Them – and – They Follow Me:
I can guarantee – When you’re “Following Jesus” – “Serving Jesus”
you will NOT be like the “Many are staying home” crowd.
God has plenty for believers to do – When believers are serving Jesus.
And, When God asked Abraham to leave – his country – his kindred – Gen 12:1-4
Abraham went out NOT knowing where he was going – It’s by faith…
Heb 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place
which he should after receive for an inheritance,
“obeyed;” and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
It’s – Trust and Obey – NOT – Think and Decide. 😉
When Jesus asked me to leave – He never told me where we were going.
I’m NOT saying it was easy – But – It was worth it.
Jesus did NOT reform “The Corrupt Religious System” of His day…
He left it – And called out others in “The System” into a relationship with Him…
So, instead of asking “Where else is there?” You might try asking…
Jesus – “Where do you want me?” “Here I am – send me.”
Isa 6:8
I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, who will go for us?
Then said I, Here am I; send me.
If He tells you to stay in – “The System” – then stay.
If He tells you to leave – “The System” – then leave.
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be ALL taught of God.
Deuteronomy 4:36
Out of heaven he made thee to *hear His voice,*
that *He might instruct thee:*
Hi Shirly – And good to hear from you also.
You ask…
“Where else is there?” – That’s a reasonable question. One many ask…
But – Maybe that’s NOT the best question.
Ask different questions – Get different answers. 😉
And, short answer is – Ask Jesus – Hear what He has to say – Then Follow Him.
Jesus, never asks us to follow “Mere Fallible Humans.” aka – church leaders. 😉
John 10:27 – Jesus said…
My Sheep – Hear – My Voice, I Know Them – and – They Follow Me:
I can guarantee – When you’re “Following Jesus” – “Serving Jesus”
you will NOT be like the “Many are staying home” crowd.
God has plenty for believers to do – When believers are serving Jesus.
And, When God asked Abraham to leave – his country – his kindred – Gen 12:1-4
Abraham went out NOT knowing where he was going – It’s by faith…
Heb 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place
which he should after receive for an inheritance,
“obeyed;” and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
It’s – Trust and Obey – NOT – Think and Decide. 😉
When Jesus asked me to leave – He never told me where we were going.
I’m NOT saying it was easy – But – It was worth it.
Jesus did NOT reform “The Corrupt Religious System” of His day…
He left it – And called out others in “The System” into a relationship with Him…
So, instead of asking “Where else is there?”
Jesus – “Where do you want me?” “Here I am – send me.”
Isa 6:8
I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, who will go for us?
Then said I, Here am I; send me.
If He tells you to stay in – “The System” – then stay.
If He tells you to leave – “The System” – then leave.
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be ALL taught of God.
Deuteronomy 4:36
Out of heaven he made thee to *hear His voice,*
that *He might instruct thee:*
Hi Shirly – And good to hear from you also.
You ask…
“Where else is there?” – That’s a reasonable question. One many ask…
But – Maybe that’s NOT the best question.
Ask different questions – Get different answers. 😉
And, short answer is – Ask Jesus – Hear what He has to say – Then Follow Him.
Jesus, never asks us to follow “Mere Fallible Humans.” aka – church leaders. 😉
John 10:27 – Jesus said…
My Sheep – Hear – My Voice, I Know Them – and – They Follow Me:
I can guarantee – When you’re “Following Jesus” – “Serving Jesus”
you will NOT be like the “Many are staying home” crowd.
God has plenty for believers to do – When believers are serving Jesus.
And, When God asked Abraham to leave – his country – his kindred – Gen 12:1-4
Abraham went out NOT knowing where he was going – It’s by faith…
Heb 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place
which he should after receive for an inheritance,
“obeyed;” and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
It’s – Trust and Obey – NOT – Think and Decide. 😉
When Jesus asked me to leave – He never told me where we were going.
I’m NOT saying it was easy – But – It was worth it.
Jesus did NOT reform “The Corrupt Religious System” of His day…
He left it – And called out others in “The System” into a relationship with Him…
So, instead of asking “Where else is there?”
Jesus – “Where do you want me?” “Here I am – send me.”
Isa 6:8
I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, who will go for us?
Then said I, Here am I; send me.
If He tells you to stay in – “The System” – then stay.
If He tells you to leave – “The System” – then leave.
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be ALL taught of God.
Deuteronomy 4:36
Out of heaven he made thee to *hear His voice,*
that *He might instruct thee:*
Hi Shirly – And good to hear from you also.
You ask…
“Where else is there?” – That’s a reasonable question. One many ask…
But – Maybe that’s NOT the best question.
Ask different questions – Get different answers. 😉
And, short answer is – Ask Jesus – Hear what He has to say – Then Follow Him.
Jesus, never asks us to follow “Mere Fallible Humans.” aka – church leaders. 😉
John 10:27 – Jesus said…
My Sheep – Hear – My Voice, I Know Them – and – They Follow Me:
I can guarantee – When you’re “Following Jesus” – “Serving Jesus”
you will NOT be like the “Many are staying home” crowd.
God has plenty for believers to do – When believers are serving Jesus.
And, When God asked Abraham to leave – his country – his kindred – Gen 12:1-4
Abraham went out NOT knowing where he was going – It’s by faith…
Heb 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place
which he should after receive for an inheritance,
“obeyed;” and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
It’s – Trust and Obey – NOT – Think and Decide. 😉
When Jesus asked me to leave – He never told me where we were going.
I’m NOT saying it was easy – But – It was worth it.
Jesus did NOT reform “The Corrupt Religious System” of His day…
He left it – And called out others in “The System” into a relationship with Him…
So, instead of asking “Where else is there?”
Jesus – “Where do you want me?” “Here I am – send me.”
Isa 6:8
I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, who will go for us?
Then said I, Here am I; send me.
If He tells you to stay in – “The System” – then stay.
If He tells you to leave – “The System” – then leave.
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be ALL taught of God.
Deuteronomy 4:36
Out of heaven he made thee to *hear His voice,*
that *He might instruct thee:*
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Yes, Amos. I get all that. But I love church! I work in a church. I go to church all the time. I don’t want to work out in a pasture!
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:46:04 +0000 > To: bwebaptist.women@live.com >
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Shirly
Help – Seems it posted twice in one comment. 🙂
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