Separation of Church and ?

Last weekend a friend went to a small country Baptist church in Texas with her husband.  Her husband and the pastor had been friends for over 30 years, so they wanted to visit his church.

Before the sermon, the pastor called all the men down front to kneel and pray.

My friend is an elder in her church, and she was astonished to see this display of man power.  She said “they all turned their backs to us.”

I am sure they did.  I am also sure that they saw nothing wrong with separating the men and the women, leaving the women behind, while the men went to the front and prayed.

You see, not only does the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 of the Southern Baptist Convention address the question of Separation of Church and State, it calls for the Separation of Church and Women.

The church separates men and women more than anything else.  What the churches around you believes about women, does not stay inside the church.  People make up that church and they are your neighbors, your friends, the shopkeepers, and medical staff.

What your church believes bleeds out into the community, out to those who do not even attend a church, and becomes the norm for society.  That is why we must be diligent in speaking out for women’s equality.

I am reading a fictional book that uses the financial situation our country finds itself in now, and how hard it is to get a business going in a small town in New England.  Seems like all small towns are in New England as it seems to have a romantic old city charm of fairs and crafts and quilting.

But a couple of sentences caught my attention.  Working at the fair, there were some women from the shelter. The shelter for abused women.

All is not right in our world.  I agree that men ought to be praying in church. They also ought to be repenting. Even though they have never done anything abusive, or been anything other than loving and kind, and have exemplified the love Jesus showed us, men ought to be praying and repenting and asking for forgiveness for the attitude that has bled out into society and caused women physical and mental harm.

Will you join me in speaking out against churches that meet on Sunday and promote Separation of Church and  Women.  Will you join me in speaking out against churches that do not speak out for women.

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About bwebaptistwomenforequality

Shirley Taylor writes with humor and common sense, challenging the church body to reclaim equality for Christian women.
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19 Responses to Separation of Church and ?

  1. Mabel says:

    I totally agree that this practice of “God ordained only men to be leaders” is not as innocent as it looks. Many insist that women are valued, women contributed, women are equal, blah blah blah. Bottom line: men and women are not equal, men rules, women occupy a lower position. Men have more authority over women. This mindset does nothing to solve the gender abuse going on all over the world. It is a mindset we need to work to eradicate. But it is an uphill battle. Men are so indoctrinated that this party line is practically part of their DNA. We need to teach, to speak out, and to pray. It is a shame that the secular world accords women a lot more freedom and opportunity than the church. Shame on the church.

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    • The church has to be held accountable for its teaching against women. We have to speak out. In my arguments you will always see the practical side of how these teachings affect women. One relative last week told me that I was just looking to the wordly side, and not in a Christian view. We need to get out of Bible World and see the effect these teachings have in the real todays world. Jesus constantly looked to the real world. He told them that the Sabbath was made for them, not them for the Sabbath. That analgy applies in more ways than one. The Bible is to help us, not to hinder.

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  2. Michelle says:

    Outside of a church, many of the women I’m around see the sexism. But in the church, they accept it–it can’t be sexism if it’s what God wants, right? But we must help them to see that the logic that serves them so well outside of the walls of a church building, God intends for us to use *inside* the church building, as well. And not just thinking inside the circles that are drawn around us: That isn’t really thinking.

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    • We have friends, responsibilites, associations within the church. We don’t want to rock the boat. Many times there is not a church close by they can go to. We have a tough row to plough, but by bringing this out into the open, we will open their eyes.

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  3. mabel says:

    Why didn’t I think of this B4, it is so obvious. Let’s use the phrase sexist comps. I have been switching from comps to restrictionists because I hate to call them comps. Egals are the true comps. Sexism is essentially same as racism. Why argue for sexism? Would you like to believe in the teachings of sexist comps? This sexism is preventing the world from coming to Christ. It is therefor ani Christ.

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    • If we are successfull, it will be “extinct comps!”

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    • Kristen says:

      The problem is that if you use the word “sexist,” that automatically labels you in the eyes of most evangelical Christians as aligning yourself with “man-hating” secular feminism, and many will simply stop listening if you use that word. Don Johnson over at Equality Central has coined the term “masculinist.” I think that’s a better choice.

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      • Michelle says:

        I agree with that problem. I believe it would be as you stated.

        Masculinist is a good term and may actually, it can be argued, be more accurate for the situation wherever it occurs.

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  4. Kristen says:

    When 1 Tim 2:8 says Paul wants men to pray, lifting up holy hands, and women “likewise” or “also” in modest dress, the Greek construction means that the women are also to be praying. Paul was not saying, “men are to pray, and women are to dress modestly.” He was saying, “men are to pray with holiness, and women are to pray with holiness.” But the translators (men!) have through the ages translated in such a way as to constantly remove women from the center of church life whenever possible.
    But all the men coming down to pray and leaving the women in the pews, is outrageous. They might as well go back to the first-century Jewish practice of putting all the women behind a screen.

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    • I think it is a part of the Manly Men thing that they have going. Men are to be men, and the church is going to help them be men. Not seeing or caring what it does to women.

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      • Michelle says:

        But God already MADE them men. What they–and we–need to be working on is being Christlike. The church needs to help us to be Christlike to and with one another. All people–not only those who are in the church.

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  5. mabel says:

    OK, I will call them masculinists. And keep thinking of something that is more accurate, non labeling, and better than comp. I just will not call them comps.

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  6. Michelle says:

    Hey, I figure most (if not all) folks here are protestant, but I think it’s wrong to excommunicate someone (or whatever other words you want to use for kicking someone out of a church) for supporting the ordination of women, so I thought this might be of interest. There is a way to sign the petition and keep your signature hidden.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/dont-dismiss-fr-roy-bourgeois-for-support-of-women-priests

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  7. amoslove says:

    Hey gang!

    I appreciate your efforts to come up with a “name”
    for these – “dastardly” *in – comp – etent* Comps. 😉

    BUT – **Please** – stop calling them “The Church.” As in…
    “The church has to be held accountable.”

    These – “dastardly” *in-comp-etent* Comps – are NOT – “the Church of God.” 😦

    They are an – IRS/Gov’t approved, IRS/Gov’t inspected, IRS/Gov’t regulated…
    501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporation.

    It’s a business – run like a business… IMO – “The Whole Religious System”
    for the past 1700 years, with the multiple thousands of denominations,
    movements, heirarchy, traditions of men, NOT respecting the Jesus in women,
    “Titles” and “Positions” NOT in the Bible, – has been, and is, – Totally Corrupt.

    I’m “The ekklesia of God.” You-all are “The ekklesia of God.” And Jesus…
    He is the head of the body, (The ekklesia, the called out one’s) The Church. 🙂

    The Church – The Body of Christ

    Did Jesus shed His Blood for a – Building – an Institution, an Organization –
    a Denomination – a Business – a $ Corporation. 🙂

    Should “disciples of Christ” call a $ Corporation – “The Church of God?”
    AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! 😉

    NOOOOOOOO…. Jesus shed His Blood for you and me… His Church…
    and purchased “Us,” – His Church – with His Blood.

    Acts 20:28
    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock,
    over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed
    *the church of God,* which he hath *purchased with his own blood.*

    Like

    • Great comment! But, Amos, the church does have to be held accountable. The church is the body of believers, and the majority of those believers believe women should be walking 5 steps behind men, or at least, not in front of men and not serving communion and not…….. the list goes on and one.

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  8. amoslove says:

    Amos – a called out one of God, His ekklesia – is fighting for equality…

    Equal with “the Body of Christ. 😉

    And NOT lumped with these – “dastardly” *in – comp – etent* Comps.

    Thank you very much. 😉

    Jesus loves us this i know…

    Like

  9. Mabel says:

    I love this comment: “respect the Jesus in women”. THis is a good way to put it. I LOVE IT!!!! First time I read someone putting it this way. Excellent! They just don’t think there is a full Jesus in women, do they? John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Bruce Ware, John McCarthy, Paige Patterson, etc. etc, they don’t see the Jesus in women. Whatever they subject women to, they would not think of subjecting Jesus to the same treatment. Double standard at best, misogynist at worst.

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  10. A. Amos Love says:

    Mabel

    Seems to me – the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead –
    lives in me – lives in you.

    Romans 8:11
    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you…

    Colossians 1:27
    To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory
    of this mystery among the Gentiles;
    which is **Christ in you, the hope of glory:**

    Ephesians 3:17
    That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; …

    Romans 8:10
    And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;

    2 Corinthians 13:5
    …Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you,…

    Luke 17:20-21
    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
    when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,

    **The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:**
    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for,

    behold, **the kingdom of God is within you.**

    Like

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