Discussion about Apology Demand – Part 2

This is the second part of the email discussion that I had with a minister who came across the demand for an apology from the CBMW (Council on Biblical Manhood and Biblical Womanhood).  July 24 was the one year anniversary of the demand. 

I had just asked R. H. if he was a Saul or a Paul.  If you will notice in this conversation, I do not give very much of R.H.’s response.  He was very wordy, and much I had to plow through to find out what he was actually saying.  As you can imagine, he seldom agreed with me.  The conversation was very interesting and I looked forward to his challenging responses.  It caused me to think.  You may not agree with me, either, but we have gotten ourselves into such a rut in speaking about women’s equality.  We need to examine it from different angles.

R.H. Please tell me whether the following video that I posted to my web site nearly three years ago answers your question (he gives his website here and he has Julie Pennington Russell, a well-known Baptist pastor being interviewed)

Shirley:  Not impressed, Brother R.H.  You also have a video of a pastor in love with authority titled  “Authority” 1 Timothy 2:12.

R. H. If I present both sides, I’m “persecuting” you?

Shirley: Saul/Paul began preaching with the disciples.  He said to his former colleagues “Guys, don’t let me get in your way.  You keep on killing the disciples and I will keep on preaching with these new friends I have made.  After all, you really believe what you are doing is right, and we just have to let people make up their own minds.”

(You and I know that this paraphrase is totally inaccurate, but it illustrates the point I wanted to make to him.  That point is:  We can’t be on both sides.  We have to choose.  Paul chose to be a witness for his new-found belief.) 

This takes a decidedly different turn here.  Look at what he picks up on.

R.H. Why is the complementarian position comparable with murder?

Shirley:  Murder is destruction of the earthly body and does not kill the soul. 

Complementarianism is destruction of the earthly personhood of a woman, and some even give the husband accountability over the soul in heaven.

(Dorothy Patterson: “I just have to do what he says and he will account before God.” )

Beth Moore says that if a man hears her speak – preach- then she is doing it under the authority of her husband and her pastor.  This gives a male human being powers that belong to God because it allows a mere man to supersede the Scriptures.   Your friend in the video mentioned earlier quotes Scripture when he says women cannot have authority over a man – he needed to add BUT, HER HUSBAND CAN GIVE HER AUTHORITY.

So in this case, we have a man acting as God to his wife. That will destroy her personhood as surely as murder.


What is to stop man from assuming more god-like control of his wife?  That is the nature of man.  Only God can have authority over his human creatures, both men and women, on earth and in heaven.

Then he says: “I don’t know that I’ve ever come across anyone who has expressed the egalitarian view in the same terms that you have been using in our correspondence, and your input is providing me with helpful insights.”  He does not agree with me.  We both understand that because his responses challenge me further. (But this is my story and I’ll leave out his responses!)

Won’t you join me in engaging people in the discussion about Christian women’s equality in the church and in the home?

About bwebaptistwomenforequality

Shirley Taylor writes with humor and common sense, challenging the church body to reclaim equality for Christian women.
This entry was posted in Demand for an Apology from the CBMW, Equality for women in Southern Baptist churches and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

7 Responses to Discussion about Apology Demand – Part 2

  1. Some it seems like to turn this into a political battle. That is what it reminds me of.

    I have never watched the Austin Power movies, but you don’t need to in order to be reminded of the character ‘mini me’. That is what their statements remind me of. For some reason they seem to think they are mini me of the trinity.

    Its almost as if they forget they are also human. We all fail – men and women. It was our failings that separated us from God. Mini Me was no different. The bible states we need Jesus, and he is not replaced by Mini Me once you marry – or in singleness have a father. No human – man or woman – could possibly fill that position.

    When we pray or speak to God? He doesn’t make sure we have this human covering as a prerequisite. They need to be very careful. They speak as if they think they are mini Jesus – not mini me. This teaching is very dangerous.

    This pastor knows what you are stating, and what you are pointing out. God knows he is not ignorant to your points. Humans tend to place word games, and the mini me’s don’t seem to grasp that Jesus didn’t have to.


  2. Mabel Yin says:

    DId you provide him links to many good articles, like what Marg, Paula, Suzanne, and many others, wrote? Point him to the free download of Does God Really Prefer Men. We have a ton of arsenal. If he is into man’s authority, give him:
    If he says God does not call women to be leaders, give him
    If he think Wayne Grudem can do no wrong, point him to:
    We should at least be able to challenge his position. He may never have been challenged before and thinks that his position is set in concrete. We need to turn that concrete into jello.


  3. lydia says:

    Mabel, He is not allowed to learn from women. See how it works?


  4. Mabel Yin says:

    Thank goodness some men are egalitarians. Maybe he can learn from them.


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