Some things people say are just stupid

Usually I don’t engage in the banter that goes on in the comments section of religious site’s blogs.  The Associated Baptist Press closed their comments section because so many used it as a place to argue, and air their pet peeves instead of sticking to the subject. (One thing I love about all of you who comment on this blog is that you stick to the subject.  I love your comments and thank you for them.)

But even I have a moment of weakness sometimes.

So I engaged.

I wrote an intelligent comment to a story about women in ministry that was on one of the Houston Chronicle’s religion editor’s blog.  Then someone wrote that just because a person can sound intelligent, it doesn’t mean that women can preach.  I let that go.

But hoodiyep I couldn’t let go.  This person made the most stupid statement and it had to be challenged.  The sad thing is that people will read what he says and because it sounds halfway religious, they will take it for gospel truth.

This is what hoodiyep said:

Eve was created for Adam and husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church.  Giving himself up for her.

Well, let’s just see how many crosses we can plant on that hill!  Let’s just see if Husband can get up out of the grave.  If a husband is going to give himself up for a wife he loves so much, exactly what does he have to do?  Do you see any men doing it?

This is what I said:

Hoodiyep, you are making things up.

Christ gave himself for the church, but men cannot give themselves up for their wives as Christ gave himself up for the church. By even implying this, you have demeaned and belittled the sacrifice that Jesus gave. He died for our sins – no husband can do that. He cannot take on our sins. He cannot even begin to love his wife like Jesus loves his church, which is made up of men and women.

Paul was simply using an illustration that everybody in his day understood when he compared a marriage to how the new Christians were to look upon Christ.

Whew! If man loved his wife like Christ loves his church, the implication is beyond anything you can imagine. Man cannot love that way, and we all know that is true. We are humans and do not have that same capacity.

Unless of course, you believe that men make the Trinity into a quartet.

These ignorant people see nothing wrong with comparing a husband to Christ.  To teach this is just plain stupid.

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About bwebaptistwomenforequality

Shirley Taylor writes with humor and common sense, challenging the church body to reclaim equality for Christian women.
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10 Responses to Some things people say are just stupid

  1. There is nothing wrong with leaving an intelligent response to an ignorant one pointed directly at you. Sadly, I think there will always be bigots.

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  2. Mabel Yin says:

    I love it when husbands proclaim up and down that husbands are to give their lives for their wives. In the same breath, they say: We will NEVER give up our authority over you. God appointed me your leader, so follow. Wow, that really is self sacrifice, isn’t it?

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  3. TL says:

    The comparison is supposed to be that in the same manner that Christ gave Himself up completely even unto death for the church (the church was born from Christ’s death, remember), husbands are to love their wives with the same abandonment.

    “just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, ….. SO, husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies”. THAT is the comparison. Husbands are to love with deep devotion as if their wives were their own lives. Without our bodies we are dead. Don’t take care of our bodies and we die. Don’t take care of your wife and the marriage dies. There is the comparison.

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    • As ordinary humans, we don’t see it that way. What we see is that this man – husband – is to love us as Christ loved the church so that must mean that he is capable of doing so. That puts women in an inferior position, and doesn’t even ask the same kind of love from us. Even as we know that men can’t love that deeply, complementarians use that as a way of keeping women the lessor of the two. I believe also, as I will explain in the continuation of this conversation, that when Paul says that men are to love their wives as they love themselves, that he means “you wouldn’t give yourself a black eye, don’t give her one.” He is telling them that wife abuse is no longer accepted. As I explained to someone this past week, I believe that wife abuse was as common as whipping children used to be in our families. Just business as usual. Paul was elevating women. But this scripture is often used to keep women down, not build her up. Because in our minds men are built up in this scripture, not women. Maybe my explanation us “just stupid” but I truly believe that when we look to Jesus’, we cannot expect to see our husband’s face. (LOL)

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    • Anne says:

      I agree. The command is not to lead your wives like Christ ‘heads’ the church – that is Christ’s job alone. The command is to LOVE your wives like Christ LOVED the church, showing it by giving himself up completely. For pastors who take verses incredibly literally, why not this one? Oh wait. They’re too busy inserting interpretations that shouldn’t be there.

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  4. TL says:

    Isn’t it so sad that people so poorly read Scripture that they cannot read it in context anymore. Instead they pull pieces of sentences, a phrase here and there and build their own doctrine that suits their own purposes.

    And well said: “I truly believe that when we look to Jesus’, we cannot expect to see our husband’s face. (LOL)” 🙂

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  5. Anne says:

    The sheer enormity of the love and sacrifice that is expected of men, according to the verse, can be difficult to put into detail, and even harder to swallow as a command. It’s not an easy task, giving yourself up completely for someone else. Expected to give and give and give. But the command for wives to submit to their husbands in everything is much easier to imagine and to carry out in fact, which could be why it receives more attention. I’m not necessarily saying this is done deliberately in order to keep women submissive and men dominant. It could be done out of laziness, reluctance to put one’s mind to understanding the male command.

    If the marriage model is to work perfectly according to the restrictionists’ selective choice of scripture, then it should look like this: 1) Husband puts his wife’s needs and requests before his own, almost all the time except for when his own need outweighs hers according to reason. He gives and sacrifices and honours her. 2) Wife submits to her man’s actions and choices – except the beauty of it is, what she is submitting to are things that are for her and her good!

    She should also submit to his needs when reason calls for it, as while the Bible doesn’t call for women to be ruled over by their husbands, it also doesn’t call for husbands to become slaves to their wives.

    If one could play devil’s advocate with the SBC, this is what it should look like. Ironically, it would be closer to Scripture than they’ve managed so far.

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    • Michelle says:

      Brilliant. I like this.

      🙂

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      • Anne says:

        Seriously, the Biblical expectation of men should really be emphasised. Especially when you have secular views out there such as the below.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-398998/How-feminism-destroyed-real-men.html

        Here the author argues that a) real men don’t bother with building relationships or care about what people think of them, but follow their own spirit b) women want to be controlled by a man and should be, because we’re hapless emotional messes who want to get into arguments for the sake of getting into arguments c) give a woman a good orgasm and she’ll not only let you stay despite your bad behaviour, but submit to your dominance d) sex is how you assert your authority over a woman in general (exactly what rapists think!) e) it doesn’t matter if a man is a jerk, it’s his wife’s decision to stay with him (therefore her fault if she’s unhappy).

        Yes, apparently women are better off with selfish boars, who can keep her from succumbing to emotional irrationality which would be inevitable if it wasn’t for ‘real men’ like him.

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    • Kristen says:

      I agree, Anne– but I would add that it should be emphasized that husbands cannot have an “I’m your husband and I know what’s best for you” mentality. The only way they can know what a wife needs is to ask her — i.e., communicate with her as a full human adult, equal to themselves. It’s also important to realize that what this would have sounded like to husbands in first-century male-rule marriages, would have been a radical raising up of the wife to be beside them and not under their feet. We tend to miss what would have shouted to them– that men, like Christ, were in a place of power which they were being asked to lay down as He laid down His power, and raise their wives up as He was raising the church up.

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