She wants me to stop

Got an email late Saturday night from a woman who has emailed me a couple of times.  She works at a fundamental conservative Christian institution. 

She wants me to stop promoting women’s equality.

This is her email to me.

I’m sorry if this email is about to sound rude but don’t you think it is more important that God is glorified through the church rather than women’s rights??  The Lord said a prayer right before He left this earth and it was that our church should be unified.  You are bringing much dissension to the church.  Don’t you think if God really wanted you on a platform He could place you there like He did Beth Moore and Darlene Zchech? Why do you have to start a revolt?  This is just more thing Satan is using to tear the church apart.  Just leave it alone…if the Lord really wants you on a platform He’ll make a way but I assure you, pride comes before the fall and I don’t see any humility on your part.

If you really believe that the scripture is God-breathed and inspired it says that women should not have authority over men (I Timothy 2:12)  It says that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (I Corinthians 11:3)  Do you believe that? 

Why are you doing this?  It’s just causing division.

OK. Here goes:

She says: More important that God is glorified through the church rather than women’s rights  

My response is that women’s rights in the church will glorify God more than He is now glorified by the present teaching which is:

  1. that He created one perfect human being and gave that human god-like divinity; and then
  2. created a sub-human woman who would provide one-half of her DNA to their children;
  3. the sub-human woman would bear and teach the children about God;
  4. the sub-human woman would give of her time, her tithe, her energy and abilities to carry on the work of the church, but could never lead the church, and could never have full fellowship with God.

She said: The Lord said a prayer right before He left this earth and it was that our church should be unified

My response:  the church has never been unified in all of its teachings, we have always had Christians against Christians,  Baptists against Baptists

 Is the unification she wants:

  • That we continue in slavery and holding other humans in bondage;
  • That we never progress beyond the first century in our understanding of what Jesus was really saying;
  • That we cease learning;
  • That we stop holding people accountable for their false teaching.

She says: Placed on a platform like Beth Moore and Darlene Zschech (whoever that is).

My response:  I met Beth Moore when she first started in her ministry and spent a weekend with her.  She was not on a platform then, because our little church only had 3 women and the other church only had 15 women when she spent the weekend with this little insignificant group.

My question to her is:  Why would I want to be on a platform under a ‘male covering’ such as Beth believes she is.

She says: pride comes before the fall and I don’t see any humility on your part

My response:  Do you know how many times I have been told that I am not humble by those people who are seeking to destroy me?  Do you know how many times I have been told that I am a nothing, that I am to be in submission to my husband, that Men are called by God to preach, be a deacon, whatever and that I can never be?  Do you know how many times I have been told to go to another church, or to just leave, to get out the way? 

Humility means “a modest opinion or estimate of one’s own importance.”   Those who tell me I have no humility are those who seek to heap importance on the male gender.  Humility, don’t make me laugh.

And then of course the tried and true scriptures – translated myopically (lacking tolerance or understanding).

She says:  1 Timothy 2:12

My response: This verse is sandwiched in between telling me what clothes to wear and that I can be saved by having a baby and being good.  Not really a good example of God’s role for me.

This one tells it all:  1 Corinthians 11:3 tells me that Christ is the head of my husband, but is not the head of me, because my husband is.  Now, do you really believe this woman believes that?  It is contrary to all the scriptures we learn, contrary to all the songs we sing, contrary to all the sermons we hear, contrary to what we teach our children, contrary to all the prayers we pray, and contrary to all we know about God and His love.

I wish I had told her all that.  But it all didn’t come to mind late at night. 

Will you help me build a platform so all Christian women can climb aboard and proclaim God’s words to all who will listen?

About bwebaptistwomenforequality

Shirley Taylor writes with humor and common sense, challenging the church body to reclaim equality for Christian women.
This entry was posted in 1 Corinthians 11:3 explained, Do Baptists Really Believe That?, Scriptures explained and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

29 Responses to She wants me to stop

  1. Paula says:

    Good responses. But I would just add that male supremacy actually TEACHES DIVISION. It separates one part of the Body from another, as if the hand must ask the eye to talk to the brain (more accurately, as if the whole right side of the Body must report to the left side).

    So we who try to repair that rift are accused of “division”!

    Like

  2. You are bringing much dissension to the church.

    WOW aren’t you powerful!

    One thing she may not realize, and something they seem to teach? It seems your husband doesn’t feel ‘ruled over’, and supports, believes in equality for women. That in itself deletes their hypothesis on ALL relationships.

    They get so bent over this ‘rule over’ part, and see this as a major ‘threat’. I personally, don’t want to ‘rule over’ anyone.

    I oppose their dogma that they added to scripture, and the dogma – not women – are the true source of the dissension. They can sugar coat that truth with all kinds of nice and sentimental adjectives all they want. Its still dogma.

    The fact they have already made up their minds about me – I oppose also because its false. They seem to be arrogant enough to tell me they know myself better than I do.

    I will color outside the lines, and I will step out of the box they call roles.

    They can admit that men have a tendency to be evil, but for some reason its woman’s fault that the world is the way it is.

    They are pulling an Adam!

    Its that woman you gave me! Its your fault God, because you didn’t grant me enough ‘leadership’ skills to reach these…these…FEMINISTS! You made it so she feels she can ‘rule over me’, and I’M THE LEADER!

    They should be using the gifts that God has granted women, instead of telling them to stuff them down. The Holy Spirit’s prompting overrides man. The Holy Spirit is higher up the hierarchy than they are. Sadly, I don’t think they see they need to stop trying ‘rule over’. It’s God Glory that we are after, and not our own.

    Like

  3. Jane says:

    Well here’s what I would say,

    Like

    • Paula says:

      Excellent points, Jane. People refuse to admit where their teachings lead. They rewrite history and pick out only the parts they like, make an idol out of it, and then beat others over the head with it.

      I read years ago the testimony of a super-model who grew up in Africa. She describes the horrible practice of FGM exactly as you have. There is no anesthesia, no concern for sterile instruments. The girl is brutally maimed and tortured, and it’s a miracle that any survive. Those were the model’s words. She is now a crusader against FGM. But amazingly, the Muslims in the west are trying to get it practiced here. But they’re not stupid; they only want a little “nick” for ceremonial purposes… FOR NOW. If they get that, nothing will stop them from full-blown FGM.

      Like

      • Jane says:

        They are doing full FGMs on girls here though, as well as forced marriages, sending these girls to Somalia-elsewhere, taking them out of school, etc., and here’s what is really disgusting about this–

        Like

      • Paula says:

        Yes, that’s true. We’ve already seen a sharp rise in “honor” killings, and it was only by prayer and a LOT of heat on the gov. of Ohio that Rifka Barry escaped being one of them.

        It’s so ironic… male supremacy always paints us egals as on a slippery slope, but look where THEIR slope ends! Those people refuse to hear it. And you’re absolutely right about this slope. If Islam isn’t outlawed and banned completely, it will dominate us. There is no middle ground with them.

        Misogyny is everywhere. Now that it’s overtaken the churches, no place on earth is safe for women. Surely we have reached “the days of Noah”, and just as surely, this sign points to our soon rescue.

        Like

    • Jane says:

      lol, that should be 2010, got that whole 2012 Freudian slip going there, LOL…

      sorry to get off topic but that IS a really important aspect of this whole go back to Dark Ages cult mentality that is sweeping the churches AND it is tied into the whole Babylonian cult, which many do not see or at least I don’t think they do…

      Like

      • Jane says:

        I should add, to that shelter/hubby daddy is the materialism too, because back in the day, the Christian socialist feminists [before this nation went with the pro-greed lot, industrial/cotton gin age] WARNED that the patriarchy male centric was going to produce nothing but

        childish silly women who consume because they are Rapunzel’s[my term] in castles with nothing else to do–their child like state then would create selfish materialist children,

        Like

  4. Jane says:

    oops, I’m sorry, that should be,

    you will now forfeit, your independence, etc., from the monarchy…King George, etc.,

    typo there…

    Like

  5. Kristen says:

    I cannot agree with outlawing Islam; if the government can outlaw a religion it doesn’t like, then any form of Christianity it doesn’t like will be next, believe me.

    The point of government is to protect the people from oppression. This is why it can step in and arrest parents who refuse life-saving meds to their children in the name of Christian faith-healing. This is why we must never let Sharia law be implemented here.

    As for the idea that “peace” is more important than right and wrong– both Martin Luther and Martin Luther King Jr. showed us why this cannot be so.

    Like

    • Paula says:

      Islam is not a mere religion but a government, and one that is expressly hostile to every other government. It openly aims to take over, not coexist, and that is treason. Christianity, in contrast, is not a government and has supported the Constitution since its inception. So anyone who would try to use banning of Islam as a reason to ban Christianity understands neither.

      Like

    • Lydia says:

      “This is why we must never let Sharia law be implemented here.”

      Kristen, This is going to be a huge problem. The teaching of the Quran cannot peacably coexist with our Constitution. The Quran makes no provision for living under any other kind of government except for Islamic government.

      It is a blessing that most Muslims do not know the Quran and are Muslims in name only. But that may not last.

      We should not outlaw a “religion” but we can certainly NOT make provisions for them to carry out their own law within the communities that would take away civil liberties. And if they are serious Muslims, they will not abide by that at all. You cannot seperate their view of being governed with Islam.

      I see a huge problem looming on our horizon. It is already a big problem in Europe. And the media is turning a blind eye. It has simply astonished me how many American liberals defend Islam considering their treatment of women. If I had not seen it with my own eyes, I would not have believed it.

      Like

      • Jane says:

        Paula is correct, Islam is not just a ‘religion’ but a Political system that is all intertwined with Islam–the Hadiths and the Koran/Quran, there IS no secular with Islam–Turkey though claiming to ‘be’ secular was anything but–Sharia Law still applied to women.

        Like

      • Jane says:

        Oh, in addition–to what I just wrote,

        you know I think Tolkien saw this too, the Gold Ring–was thinking this the other day,

        because there are a lot of prophetic ‘clues’ in the Lord of the Rings,

        now whether he knew it or not, I don’t know, and Narnia, the book, the animals and the counterfeit, yea I think it was also prophetic–Tolkien relied a lot I believe on the stories taken out of the Protestant Canon, such as Maccabees, and those elephants with the black turban soldiers [who to me represent Islam, especially the Ottoman Empire] but anyway,

        yea, that gold ring [rings used in Romance–a.k.a. Roman, big industry there, that is slavery based and prostitution based],

        some interesting stuff there.

        Just saying

        Jane

        Like

      • Paula says:

        Jane, I think it all boils down to the world being steeped in deception, another sign of the end. “History is written by the victors”, and they are very careful to control what we believe about the past as well as the present. They even condition people to reject anything that sounds too weird, without bothering to check facts.

        And it’s all the best motivation for sticking close to the Spirit of Truth.

        Like

  6. Lydia says:

    Your email “friend” was not really talking about unity at all. She was advocating “conformity”.

    This is one of my pet peeves. So many abuse the term “unity” in Jesus’ prayer. Even Rick Warren abuses it!

    It is SPIRITUAL unity. Spiritual unity transcends gender. It has to or else no women could ever be Christlike because Jesus was male on earth. They simply must come to grips with this. There is no pink or blue Christianity. They make much of flesh and worldly ways….they elevate them to salvic positions and create a works religion that does not save at all. As a matter of fact, it keeps people very busy making sure they and others are in their proper assigned “roles”. Satan loves it.

    Like

  7. Kristen says:

    With regards women teaching, I’m copying something I posted on another blog about Galatians 3:28, which says that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free, there is not male and female. I got the usual song-and-dance about how this only applied to salvation. My response was to point to the continuation of Paul’s thought in the next verses.

    Galatians 4:1-5:

    “What I am saying is that so long as the heir is a child, he is no different than a slave, although he owns the whole estate . . . But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son . . . that we might receive the full rights of sons.”

    This is the continuation of Paul’s thought from Galatians 3:26. If all Paul is saying is that everyone gets salvation (gets to be in God’s family), then why this distinction between children, slaves and sons? It would have been natural for a freeborn Jewish believer to say to a woman or a slave, “Well, you get to be saved by Christ, but that’s all this passage refers to; you get nothing else that freeborn Jewish males get,” but this is in effect saying that though the woman or the slave “owns the whole estate,” she/he is still “a child” in status. But this is the exact opposite of what Paul is saying.

    Further, Paul just got done telling the story (in Gal. 2:14) how he rebuked Peter for treating the Gentile believers differently from the Jewish believers. Paul adds to “there is neither Jew nor Greek (etc)” that we are all one in Christ.” “Oneness” is directly equated in Paul’s letter with not treating one group differently from another in the church.

    The “clothe yourselves with Christ” metaphor is also telling. Clothing as a metaphor in Paul’s epistles refers to a change that affects all aspects of life. It is not part of Paul’s theology (as it is the modern church’s) to separate salvation from the rest of one’s Christian walk.

    I think that a too-strict reading of Galatians 3:26-28 in terms of being in God’s family/getting to go to heaven only, is a complete misreading of this text. It is one of Paul’s many statements about the nature of the covenant community “in Christ” which is part of the great Story of creation-fall-redemption which is what the Bible is all about. This text was not intended as a way to hand a sop to women, Gentiles and slaves and say, “Here, be satisfied with that. We free male Jews get all the good stuff in the Kingdom.” The church in history should have read the other “women” passages in light of such overarching statements as these, and not the other way around. That they did not, was a product of the misogyny of their own cultures.

    That we continue to read it as they did, is a product of the misogyny of ours.

    Like

    • Lydia says:

      That whole passage is about FULL INHERITANCE. It is a crime against God what they do to it. Don’t ever let them get by with it.

      Like

  8. Lydia says:

    ” Just leave it alone…if the Lord really wants you on a platform He’ll make a way but I assure you, pride comes before the fall and I don’t see any humility on your part.”

    This poor deceived woman thinks that anyone on a platform is there because of God? We need to ask her why He wanted so many false teachers over the course of history on platforms.

    (She is a part of the cult of personality and does not even realize it)

    Like

  9. Kristen says:

    I agree that we must not let the US become a theocracy. Neither Islam nor any other religion, not even Christianity, must be allowed to take away the right to worship (or even not to worship) as each person sees fit. Liberty of conscience is essential to the practice of our faith.

    Like

  10. EricW says:

    My not-so-polite response to that woman’s email:

    Like

    • EricW says:

      but I assure you, pride comes before the fall

      Actually, Summer comes before the Fall (or before “Autumn” if you’ve seen the cute movie (500) Days of Summer)

      Like

  11. madame says:

    Wow! What an email….

    So Patriarchal teachig brings unity? I see a lot of division coming from it.
    – You have divisions over head covering, whether women should wear it or not, if they should, whether it should be worn full time or only at church and what it means.
    – Divisions over how much a woman can or can’t do in church.
    – Divisions over what women are allowed to wear.
    – Divisions over how much authority husbands hold.
    – Endless discussing who has got it “right”.

    And just the plain old division between leaders and followers. Leaders being generally untouchable, followers expected to adhere to what leader says.

    It just doesn’t spell out Christianity to me.

    Like

  12. madame says:

    And I forgot to add, the division this doctrine is causing in homes.
    The man is taught that he is to be the leader, that he has vetoing power and decision making authority. He is taught that if he doesn’t “lead” (to whichever extent his teacher tells him he is supposed to, because not all teachers agree) he is not fulfilling his calling. He is taught that he is the one God calls. He is not taught that UNITY is the key to a God-gloryfying marriage, but his loving authority and leadership paired with his wife’s submissive following.

    The man doesn’t cleave to his wife as he should, because he is seeking God’s will for his family on his own. He is not treating his wife as his equal, his helper suitable. He is creating a separation for the sake of maintaining his position. And it’s the women who are bearing the burden of maintaining harmony and unity by means of submitting to their husband’s authority.

    But the Bible doesn’t teach husbands to exercise authority over their wives.
    It doesn’t teach that husbands have final decision making authority or power to veto.
    It doesn’t instruct men to lead their wives, but to love them, honor them, treat them as equals.

    Like

    • One pastor told me that on those points the the Bible is silent, we can’t read into it certain things. But they read into the scriptures male domination even though the Bible is certainly silent on that.

      Like

      • madame says:

        The way I see it, the Bible was written to a male dominated society, but it never endorsed that male domination, all it did was tell the males to stop dominating and start respecting, protecting and loving.

        Like

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